The Euthyphro Dilemma
Jerry D. McDonald
Plato’s dialogue Euthyphro has Socrates asking Euthyphro: “Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious,
or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?” The so-called dilemma has Socrates asking Euthyphro if the gods
love the pious because it is pious or is it pious because it is loved by the gods. The dilemma dictates that if the pious
is loved by the gods because it is pious then the gods love is what makes the pious worth loving. However, if the pious
is pious because it is loved by the gods then whatever the gods decide to love becomes pious.
Now you are probably asking what this has to do with anything other than Plato’s dialogue. Actually the atheistic
community has made a very big deal out of this question. Only they don’t deal specifically with love. Their argument
goes like this: “Does God say a thing is good because it is good, or is it good because God says it is good?”
The dilemma is that if God says a thing is good because it is good this supposedly puts something higher than God.
Now if something is good because God says it is good then whatever God says can be good. If God says that murder
is good (according to this so-called dilemma) then murder becomes good.
Atheists use this in their attempts to confuse people about God and the Bible. This is like saying “Does God say the
Bible is authoritative because it is authoritative, or is it authoritative because God says it is?” Again, this
supposedly puts forth the same dilemma. If God says that the Bible is authoritative because it is authoritative, then
there is an authority above God. And if it is authoritative because God says that it is, then whatever God says is
authoritative.
Those who argue these things to show that the Bible is not the inspired, inerrant and authoritative word of God do not
realize that God, himself, is the highest level of authority that there is. Whether it be in the realm of love, or goodness
or whatever, he is the highest level of authority.
Paul wrote: “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of
God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God” (1 Cor. 2:11). Paul’s reference to “the things of God” here is to his mind.
No one can know what a person has on his mind except the spirit of that person, and no one can know what God has
on his mind except the spirit of God. God has chosen to reveal his word to us and put it in printed form that we may
learn “Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom
the ends of the world are come” (1 Cor. 10:11). God has put his “mind” in printed form that we may know what he has
on his mind for us. The paper that it is printed on is not sacred. The ink that the words are written in is not sacred, but
the words make up the mind of God, and they are sacred.
Therefore, whatever is written in the Bible constitute the mind of God on those things. His mind is not above him, nor is
it below him, and as such the words of God are not above him, nor are they below him. They are part of him, they
reflect what is in his mind for us. Therefore whatever he tells us to do comes from his mind.
Now, is a thing good because it is good, or is it good because God says it is good? The ethical values that we find
recorded in the Bible reflect the mind of God on those issues. Now when you look at the fact that there is no higher
level of authority, whether it be moral or religious, then whatever ethical values we find recorded in God’s word come
from God’s mind. The things in his mind come from his nature. He is not above his nature, neither is beneath his
nature. He cannot arbitrarily change his nature. Therefore a thing is good because God says it is good, but God says
it is good because the goodness comes from his nature; something he cannot just change on a whim. Paul wrote:
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (Heb. 13:8). John tells us that Jesus Christ is part of the
Godhead:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning
with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (Jno. 1:1-3).
We know that the word was Christ because in verse 14 John said: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” The only one that
was the begotten of the Father was Jesus Christ. Hence if Jesus Christ is God, and he is, and if Jesus Christ cannot
change, and he cannot, then God cannot change. He cannot change his mind on moral issues. He cannot even
change his mind on religious issues.
Some might argue with this by trying to show that the three dispensations of time and the worship in each shows that
God did change his mind. However, he did not change his mind because these three dispensations of time were in his
mind, they were all part of his plan to bring Christ into the world to save the lost. In each dispensation of time there
were different things involved in worship to God, but these were not changes, but they were all apart of God’s plan.
One might argue that Paul said:
“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things
are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord
sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood” (Heb. 7:12-14).
And yes, we would have to say that this was a change, but it was not a change as though a mistake had been made,
but rather it was a fulfillment of what God had already intended. So God did not change his mind on these things at all,
he merely fulfilled each one and moved on to the next step.
Some think that God can do anything, but the truth of the matter is that God can only do those things which are
possible, good and in keeping with his nature and his eternal plan. God cannot sin because sinning is evil and it is not
within the nature of God to sin “Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity” (Hab. 1:13).
So is a thing good because God says it is good, or is it good because it is good. It is both, it is good because God
says it is good, but God cannot arbitrarily change his mind and suddenly say that something that he formerly said was
bad was some how good. It is good because it comes from his nature, his mind. He is the highest level of authority
that there is, and whatever comes from his mind is the highest level of authority that there is.
Do the atheists have an argument? No, they do not. They simply haven’t looked at the third alternative
"...but try the spirits whether they are of God..." (1 Jno. 4:1)
Jerry D. McDonald
Plato’s dialogue Euthyphro has Socrates asking Euthyphro: “Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious,
or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?” The so-called dilemma has Socrates asking Euthyphro if the gods
love the pious because it is pious or is it pious because it is loved by the gods. The dilemma dictates that if the pious
is loved by the gods because it is pious then the gods love is what makes the pious worth loving. However, if the pious
is pious because it is loved by the gods then whatever the gods decide to love becomes pious.
Now you are probably asking what this has to do with anything other than Plato’s dialogue. Actually the atheistic
community has made a very big deal out of this question. Only they don’t deal specifically with love. Their argument
goes like this: “Does God say a thing is good because it is good, or is it good because God says it is good?”
The dilemma is that if God says a thing is good because it is good this supposedly puts something higher than God.
Now if something is good because God says it is good then whatever God says can be good. If God says that murder
is good (according to this so-called dilemma) then murder becomes good.
Atheists use this in their attempts to confuse people about God and the Bible. This is like saying “Does God say the
Bible is authoritative because it is authoritative, or is it authoritative because God says it is?” Again, this
supposedly puts forth the same dilemma. If God says that the Bible is authoritative because it is authoritative, then
there is an authority above God. And if it is authoritative because God says that it is, then whatever God says is
authoritative.
Those who argue these things to show that the Bible is not the inspired, inerrant and authoritative word of God do not
realize that God, himself, is the highest level of authority that there is. Whether it be in the realm of love, or goodness
or whatever, he is the highest level of authority.
Paul wrote: “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of
God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God” (1 Cor. 2:11). Paul’s reference to “the things of God” here is to his mind.
No one can know what a person has on his mind except the spirit of that person, and no one can know what God has
on his mind except the spirit of God. God has chosen to reveal his word to us and put it in printed form that we may
learn “Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom
the ends of the world are come” (1 Cor. 10:11). God has put his “mind” in printed form that we may know what he has
on his mind for us. The paper that it is printed on is not sacred. The ink that the words are written in is not sacred, but
the words make up the mind of God, and they are sacred.
Therefore, whatever is written in the Bible constitute the mind of God on those things. His mind is not above him, nor is
it below him, and as such the words of God are not above him, nor are they below him. They are part of him, they
reflect what is in his mind for us. Therefore whatever he tells us to do comes from his mind.
Now, is a thing good because it is good, or is it good because God says it is good? The ethical values that we find
recorded in the Bible reflect the mind of God on those issues. Now when you look at the fact that there is no higher
level of authority, whether it be moral or religious, then whatever ethical values we find recorded in God’s word come
from God’s mind. The things in his mind come from his nature. He is not above his nature, neither is beneath his
nature. He cannot arbitrarily change his nature. Therefore a thing is good because God says it is good, but God says
it is good because the goodness comes from his nature; something he cannot just change on a whim. Paul wrote:
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (Heb. 13:8). John tells us that Jesus Christ is part of the
Godhead:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning
with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (Jno. 1:1-3).
We know that the word was Christ because in verse 14 John said: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” The only one that
was the begotten of the Father was Jesus Christ. Hence if Jesus Christ is God, and he is, and if Jesus Christ cannot
change, and he cannot, then God cannot change. He cannot change his mind on moral issues. He cannot even
change his mind on religious issues.
Some might argue with this by trying to show that the three dispensations of time and the worship in each shows that
God did change his mind. However, he did not change his mind because these three dispensations of time were in his
mind, they were all part of his plan to bring Christ into the world to save the lost. In each dispensation of time there
were different things involved in worship to God, but these were not changes, but they were all apart of God’s plan.
One might argue that Paul said:
“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things
are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord
sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood” (Heb. 7:12-14).
And yes, we would have to say that this was a change, but it was not a change as though a mistake had been made,
but rather it was a fulfillment of what God had already intended. So God did not change his mind on these things at all,
he merely fulfilled each one and moved on to the next step.
Some think that God can do anything, but the truth of the matter is that God can only do those things which are
possible, good and in keeping with his nature and his eternal plan. God cannot sin because sinning is evil and it is not
within the nature of God to sin “Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity” (Hab. 1:13).
So is a thing good because God says it is good, or is it good because it is good. It is both, it is good because God
says it is good, but God cannot arbitrarily change his mind and suddenly say that something that he formerly said was
bad was some how good. It is good because it comes from his nature, his mind. He is the highest level of authority
that there is, and whatever comes from his mind is the highest level of authority that there is.
Do the atheists have an argument? No, they do not. They simply haven’t looked at the third alternative
"...but try the spirits whether they are of God..." (1 Jno. 4:1)
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